I really enjoyed this episode and I think it carries over from your Six Figure Mindset book that I read when I first got to know you.
It helped me reflect on what I hope to achieve from writing, and the timeline I am signing up to. Unlike you, I am taking a persistence hunter approach and not expecting any real pay off for several years (but I admit have the luxury of taking this strategy). For now I am focused on writing the best possible books at this stage in my development, and building up a back catalogue of about half a dozen books I am proud of (which I estimate will take about another five years, which I am happy to spend on this part of my life). When I reach that stage I will reassess if I want to pivot to more active marketing strategies. Maybe I am just putting off doing that hard work, but a lot of sources say the ROI of active promotion is better the more products you have to offer. There is also the small chance that one of my books takes off organically until then (I plan to wriggle my way onto every podcast I can over the next few years since I find the format enjoyable, just enough to keep myself as an author in front of a steady trickle of an audience). In some ways I am enjoying writing in relative obscurity for now (writing under a spotlight or with impatient readers tapping their feet impatiently doesn't appeal to me at all).
Thank you, Shane. I have enjoyed watching your exploration of fiction and marketing. You may not have the urgency of a tsunami, but you have tenacity and vision. From the things we've discussed, it's clear to me you're gathering information and preparing to be all in or get out. That seems healthy. The timeframe is of no importance—or little importance.
Interesting approach. I get what you’re really driving at and that you’re trying to inspire people to try harder, but this is one of the few times I disagree with you. Or maybe it’s just your approach.
To my mind, writing and publishing serves all kinds of purposes in people’s lives. For some, writing is cathartic or helps them handle trauma or even just everyday life. For others, it’s the fun of story creation. Yet others, it’s the goal to be the next Stevie King in terms of notoriety, money and literary power.
But, not everyone has the same goals with their writing and publishing careers. And, it also depends on where people are at in their publishing journey. Some are still finding their voice; some are just starting on this path to publishing.
And the introverts need more lead time to jump on these things. I am not an introvert but I have many friends who are, and writer friends who are. They take time to warm up to the marketing side of this game, and for them that is the proper approach. They would fail trying the leap-off-the-cliff-and-wade-in attack plan because it’s not how they function. Mentally they process and tackle this part of the game differently.
To be honest, the publishing game is unique and there is no silver bullet. You could have a shy, withdrawn writer who finally gets the courage to self publish a book and it could be read by the “right” person and get launched to the upper tiers. Maybe not, but that possibility is there, and is always there. It’s why I don’t abide by the ‘bare your teeth, fight like a berserker and rush in’ or quit approach.
The truth is you could do everything right, make all the best decisions and still fail to achieve Uncle Stevie status. And you could bounce along doing minimal things and end up the next JK Rowling.
I believe that if you’re passionate about writing (or any creative endeavor) you follow it. To the best of your ability at the time. You don’t give up, because some journeys require a lifetime of commitment, and they’re not going to drop on you no matter how bad you want it.
Follow your dreams. Trust in the process. Enjoy the journey. And if you don’t become the greatest author of all time, was it a waste to begin with? Of course not. That’s not what it’s really all about anyway. 😉
Even if you have minimal skills, even if you don’t feel confident, and even if you aren’t ready to tackle the big marketing demons yet it doesn’t mean you stop. Even if, in the end, you “lose.” If you love writing you keep trying. At whatever pace you can handle.
Thank you for taking the time to share this take on the episode. To a degree, I hoped there would be a reaction to my perspective. I welcome the dialogue, and so much of what you say is true in the true/but form.
It's TRUE that someone might self-publish a book and that that book will fall into the right hands BUT that's viral—like a grass fire—burns hot, dies fast. I know of no writer who hit the jackpot by luck and transitioned the fame into a career.
It's TRUE that some people write to save their mental health, BUT they shouldn't waste time listening to TRBM, because they could better spend their hour writing and improving their health.
It's TRUE some people stay "on the sidelines" while they learn the ropes, BUT those people need to be soul-searching into the future, because if writing is a distraction from a higher purpose, they might be sacrificing the great for the good. Those like you have a plan and you understand your plan and know you have to build to see the kind of success you dream of.
Where I can't see true/but fitting is the J.K. Rowling scenario. She busted her ass doing everything she could, never accepting no, and writing and writing and writing until her effort broke through. Compare her work ethic and tenacity to any other author, and she'll outwork that author. Same with King. The guy writes so long and so intently he shames we mere mortals.
Now, it's TRUE that someone can work as hard as Steve or Joanne and never have the level of success they had, BUT you can't work that hard for that long and not have a full, robust literary career. Some of our trajectory is based on luck and timing, but it's like olympic swimmers shaving their legs. .001 seconds is the difference between gold and silver, but shaved legs won't determine the winner of a YMCA swim race.
Yep on all those counts. This is one of those points where we'll just agree to disagree. I see the process as serving ends beyond the financial success. I don't know exactly what purpose writing and publishing serves with each individual and therefore would never tell another writer to quit because there is no single path to success.
My own writing/publishing journey has been circuitous but looking back, each moment and path led me forward and brought me to now. Some things in minor ways, others in major, and I could have, and should have quit by your standards during any of those points.
As long as I'm not actively upsetting you or saying things that feel disrespectful, I don't need to agree to disagree, and am happy to have this conversation. Civil debate is a gift.
The reason I feel comfortable telling the recipient of this message to quit writing is the same reason I'm comfortable telling an alcoholic or a sugar addict or any kind of addict to quit their drug of choice.
Now in this case, there's a huge gap between the unspecified you and the specific you. I can tell the former to quit because I trust that the right person will hear the message and say, "You know, he's right. I'm just wasting my time, and it's better I get out," and maybe that choice leads to that person becoming great at something they're far more passionate about. Perhaps a bad example, but a key one: Oppenheimer. He wrote fiction for some time, but he was pushed out of it, and that led him to pursue science.
I'd never tell a specific you to quit unless I was his or her dear friend and trusted with that kind of intimate insight.
Back in high school, I had a coach who cut me from JV basketball because he saw that I was half-hearted and told me so. Had I argued, he'd've relented, but I accepted his assessment because I knew he was right. Still, it hurt like hell, and I resented him for years, but in time I came to appreciate all the pain he saved me. I was never cut out for the kind of commitment it took to be great at basketball.
Jordan got cut from JV too, and for similar reasons, but he saw what happened, connected the dots, and said, "I'm never letting that happen to me again." He, as we all know, went on to be the hardest working MF the game ever knew.
Now I know there's a lot of nuance between Jordan and the 6th man on the worst team in the NBA, but even the 6th man on the worst team is putting in so much effort that he can school the best guy prowling the streets in pickup ball.
I look at the chasm between willy-nilly publishing and what it takes to be great, and I say, wake up. If I wake someone up, I'm happy.
And the only other thing I'm thinking has bearing on this discussion is that I'm okay with someone hearing this message and deciding my podcast is a poor fit for what she's trying to accomplish. I want my message to be the bullseye for a certain kind.
With that said, I speculate that you're the kind of person I'm talking to, and I think you're on the cusp of great things. To the one who refuses to quit goes the spoils—and the spoils, I believe, go to those in order of their risk.
No you're not upsetting me in the sense that I'm getting mad at you :). That's why I caveated what I initially said about your message. I know full well you're not telling people to quit writing but telling them that if they reallllllly want to succeed they're gonna have to bleed and sweat and occasionally cry. I agree with being up front on that too. This is not an easy game and it is not a fluffy profession where someone can sit down, write a book and think they're headed for the big time.
What I am saying and ascribing to is that you have to choose your words carefully with specific writers because while yes, it's hard and yes it ain't this magical career path, there are grades and steps to getting ready to tackle this career. If I'd listened to this podcast twenty years ago I'd have told you to fuck off because I wasn't at that stage yet. I love your gung-ho attitude and it has inspired me to step outside my comfort zone and go do more, do as much as I can to keep this rolling. However, I'm also in a place now where I can devote much more time, money and energy into this career.
Looking back on my path I was always writing. I knew I wanted to be an author when I was a teen. Back then outside of traditional publishing there weren't many (if any) avenues to get published, but I concentrated on my writing skills and slowly over time I started getting small opportunities. I LOVE that the Indie world has sprung up because it has opened that path for people like you and I to give the big five the hand wave and go our own routes. I like being in charge of my own destiny.
To my mind, as authors, we owe the up and coming two things. One, we be honest about what new and would be authors are up against. Like you have said: you have to be willing to work, put in hard time, money, effort and attack this from as many different ways as possible. We owe it to new authors to be straight with them about what they're getting into. I've run into several writers who still think it's a 'write a book and it's a slam dunk' process. I don't even understand how that is still a thing but it is. So we need to point out the truths.
But, my second thing is that I feel we should be lighting the way and encouraging the up and coming authors too. We point out what a bitch it's going to be but we also show them how worthwhile it is if they do put in the time. I love listening to your segments where you talk about how cool it is selling even one book at a show or how great it is when someone tells you your book really knocked it out of the park for them. I love that too--when I get someone writing me back saying, holy hell that was awesome! Making that connection with readers is the best. And I prefer to pass on that enthusiasm to other writers just starting out or in the middle trying to decide where this goes next for them.
I think we're both on the same path. Like you, I am relentless when it comes to writing and publishing. I won't quit because I've gotten tastes of how much fun it is getting those successes, and because I just genuinely enjoy writing "The End" and wondering how the hell I got there.
I'm not for sugar-coating this business but I'm also for looking at a new writer/author and telling them, "Yes, you can do this. Don't give up."
I'm conflicted. We agree that experienced authors owe new authors something, and I definitely want to encourage others to persevere.
At the same time, I regret trusting the common narrative. I spent more than seventy thousand dollars on formal college education to earn an MFA in fiction writing. It benefitted me very little.
I spent more than five years pursuing traditional publishing because that is what "real" authors did. Meanwhile, Hugh Howey, J.A. Konrath and Michael Sullivan self-published books and built huge followings.
Had I known where to look, or been able to hear, I believe with my whole heart, I'd be in a similar place to those authors, but there was no one giving me permission to leave the "path".
Those are years I can never get back, but at least I was all in. I learned so much, even if it was learning not what to do.
What can I say? There are piles of bodies behind me. Kids and young adults and middle-aged folks and reinventing-retirees who left academia and never wrote again. These are the same people who believed they wanted the writers lifestyle. Many of them, if given permission to quit, say they'd have done it, but they felt guilty for putting so much in and felt they had to complete what they started. It's the sunk cost fallacy, and it's deadly.
Would you consider returning as a guest to TRBM to further explore this topic? I've enjoyed our correspondence here.
I agree it's a tricky proposition. I've read Indie stuff that has no business being published but I've also read really GOOD fiction. I took writing classes in college and for the real world, I thought they offered very little. Also, where I went, the focus was very much centered around "literary" prose with a distinct disdain for genre fiction.
I spent a long time too, going through the "process" of sending my work to traditional publishers and it got me absolutely nowhere. Sure, I'm not the greatest writer and I'll give a pass on my first couple of novels but my skills have come a long way and I still came up against walls. It's why I turned to Indie publishing too. I know I write well and tell a good story.
To your comment about getting the wasted time back--I choose to look at that time as part of the journey even though it seems like it was a waste. For my own self, I spent several years just half-assing on the writing front because it wasn't clear to me what the next steps were. But even then I don't see it as wasted time. It was me living my life and readying myself for being in that proper place mentally to move forward.
I think that's why I spoke out about this particular podcast. I truly, honestly believe everything that happens to us serves our needs. Sometimes in ways we don't expect and sometimes in ways we couldn't predict, but even when it seems like we're just sitting idle, or even moving backwards, we're actually moving forward. We just don't see it in the bigger picture.
With other writers, I don't feel like it's my job or right to tell someone to quit. I don't know what's going on in their life at any given moment and even if they completely suck, it doesn't mean they can't figure it out at some point. It's their choice, and while I suppose we can give them the option or the out to quit, it's ultimately up to them. I certainly don't see all ends for someone else--hell, half the time I can't see my own greatest good :)
And I know about the sunk/cost fallacy--it's real and it is a quagmire that will suck people down. I think it's fair to point out the downside of this business, I just don't feel it's my right or place to decide whether they should quit. And I don't believe that's your real aim or intent either--listening yesterday I think you were saying essentially the same thing--this business is rough and you have to be prepared for the harsh realities, and you have to give it your all if you want to get to the level of really being self-sustaining.
For me, I see another side of writing and its benefits even if they are only half-assing it right now.
I ran across a horror book on Amazon pre-pandemic and it was awful. The guy told me when his characters were scared, he used all the trope words--dark, evil, etc., and the story was nothing new or special. I gave him a poor rating and pointed out the flaws in my review. I also told him not to give up--to go take classes on writing and to read horror to see how it's done properly. I never heard back from him and I don't know if he kept up with it or not, but at that time he was not ready to publish and never should have. On the other hand, it doesn't mean he won't be in the future or isn't now.
Maybe I'm too much of an optimist :) :)
And yeah, I think this topic is a good one--I'd be willing to come back on and get in deeper on this.
I really enjoyed this episode and I think it carries over from your Six Figure Mindset book that I read when I first got to know you.
It helped me reflect on what I hope to achieve from writing, and the timeline I am signing up to. Unlike you, I am taking a persistence hunter approach and not expecting any real pay off for several years (but I admit have the luxury of taking this strategy). For now I am focused on writing the best possible books at this stage in my development, and building up a back catalogue of about half a dozen books I am proud of (which I estimate will take about another five years, which I am happy to spend on this part of my life). When I reach that stage I will reassess if I want to pivot to more active marketing strategies. Maybe I am just putting off doing that hard work, but a lot of sources say the ROI of active promotion is better the more products you have to offer. There is also the small chance that one of my books takes off organically until then (I plan to wriggle my way onto every podcast I can over the next few years since I find the format enjoyable, just enough to keep myself as an author in front of a steady trickle of an audience). In some ways I am enjoying writing in relative obscurity for now (writing under a spotlight or with impatient readers tapping their feet impatiently doesn't appeal to me at all).
Thank you, Shane. I have enjoyed watching your exploration of fiction and marketing. You may not have the urgency of a tsunami, but you have tenacity and vision. From the things we've discussed, it's clear to me you're gathering information and preparing to be all in or get out. That seems healthy. The timeframe is of no importance—or little importance.
Interesting approach. I get what you’re really driving at and that you’re trying to inspire people to try harder, but this is one of the few times I disagree with you. Or maybe it’s just your approach.
To my mind, writing and publishing serves all kinds of purposes in people’s lives. For some, writing is cathartic or helps them handle trauma or even just everyday life. For others, it’s the fun of story creation. Yet others, it’s the goal to be the next Stevie King in terms of notoriety, money and literary power.
But, not everyone has the same goals with their writing and publishing careers. And, it also depends on where people are at in their publishing journey. Some are still finding their voice; some are just starting on this path to publishing.
And the introverts need more lead time to jump on these things. I am not an introvert but I have many friends who are, and writer friends who are. They take time to warm up to the marketing side of this game, and for them that is the proper approach. They would fail trying the leap-off-the-cliff-and-wade-in attack plan because it’s not how they function. Mentally they process and tackle this part of the game differently.
To be honest, the publishing game is unique and there is no silver bullet. You could have a shy, withdrawn writer who finally gets the courage to self publish a book and it could be read by the “right” person and get launched to the upper tiers. Maybe not, but that possibility is there, and is always there. It’s why I don’t abide by the ‘bare your teeth, fight like a berserker and rush in’ or quit approach.
The truth is you could do everything right, make all the best decisions and still fail to achieve Uncle Stevie status. And you could bounce along doing minimal things and end up the next JK Rowling.
I believe that if you’re passionate about writing (or any creative endeavor) you follow it. To the best of your ability at the time. You don’t give up, because some journeys require a lifetime of commitment, and they’re not going to drop on you no matter how bad you want it.
Follow your dreams. Trust in the process. Enjoy the journey. And if you don’t become the greatest author of all time, was it a waste to begin with? Of course not. That’s not what it’s really all about anyway. 😉
Even if you have minimal skills, even if you don’t feel confident, and even if you aren’t ready to tackle the big marketing demons yet it doesn’t mean you stop. Even if, in the end, you “lose.” If you love writing you keep trying. At whatever pace you can handle.
You don’t quit.
Ever.
Thank you for taking the time to share this take on the episode. To a degree, I hoped there would be a reaction to my perspective. I welcome the dialogue, and so much of what you say is true in the true/but form.
It's TRUE that someone might self-publish a book and that that book will fall into the right hands BUT that's viral—like a grass fire—burns hot, dies fast. I know of no writer who hit the jackpot by luck and transitioned the fame into a career.
It's TRUE that some people write to save their mental health, BUT they shouldn't waste time listening to TRBM, because they could better spend their hour writing and improving their health.
It's TRUE some people stay "on the sidelines" while they learn the ropes, BUT those people need to be soul-searching into the future, because if writing is a distraction from a higher purpose, they might be sacrificing the great for the good. Those like you have a plan and you understand your plan and know you have to build to see the kind of success you dream of.
Where I can't see true/but fitting is the J.K. Rowling scenario. She busted her ass doing everything she could, never accepting no, and writing and writing and writing until her effort broke through. Compare her work ethic and tenacity to any other author, and she'll outwork that author. Same with King. The guy writes so long and so intently he shames we mere mortals.
Now, it's TRUE that someone can work as hard as Steve or Joanne and never have the level of success they had, BUT you can't work that hard for that long and not have a full, robust literary career. Some of our trajectory is based on luck and timing, but it's like olympic swimmers shaving their legs. .001 seconds is the difference between gold and silver, but shaved legs won't determine the winner of a YMCA swim race.
Yep on all those counts. This is one of those points where we'll just agree to disagree. I see the process as serving ends beyond the financial success. I don't know exactly what purpose writing and publishing serves with each individual and therefore would never tell another writer to quit because there is no single path to success.
My own writing/publishing journey has been circuitous but looking back, each moment and path led me forward and brought me to now. Some things in minor ways, others in major, and I could have, and should have quit by your standards during any of those points.
As long as I'm not actively upsetting you or saying things that feel disrespectful, I don't need to agree to disagree, and am happy to have this conversation. Civil debate is a gift.
The reason I feel comfortable telling the recipient of this message to quit writing is the same reason I'm comfortable telling an alcoholic or a sugar addict or any kind of addict to quit their drug of choice.
Now in this case, there's a huge gap between the unspecified you and the specific you. I can tell the former to quit because I trust that the right person will hear the message and say, "You know, he's right. I'm just wasting my time, and it's better I get out," and maybe that choice leads to that person becoming great at something they're far more passionate about. Perhaps a bad example, but a key one: Oppenheimer. He wrote fiction for some time, but he was pushed out of it, and that led him to pursue science.
I'd never tell a specific you to quit unless I was his or her dear friend and trusted with that kind of intimate insight.
Back in high school, I had a coach who cut me from JV basketball because he saw that I was half-hearted and told me so. Had I argued, he'd've relented, but I accepted his assessment because I knew he was right. Still, it hurt like hell, and I resented him for years, but in time I came to appreciate all the pain he saved me. I was never cut out for the kind of commitment it took to be great at basketball.
Jordan got cut from JV too, and for similar reasons, but he saw what happened, connected the dots, and said, "I'm never letting that happen to me again." He, as we all know, went on to be the hardest working MF the game ever knew.
Now I know there's a lot of nuance between Jordan and the 6th man on the worst team in the NBA, but even the 6th man on the worst team is putting in so much effort that he can school the best guy prowling the streets in pickup ball.
I look at the chasm between willy-nilly publishing and what it takes to be great, and I say, wake up. If I wake someone up, I'm happy.
And the only other thing I'm thinking has bearing on this discussion is that I'm okay with someone hearing this message and deciding my podcast is a poor fit for what she's trying to accomplish. I want my message to be the bullseye for a certain kind.
With that said, I speculate that you're the kind of person I'm talking to, and I think you're on the cusp of great things. To the one who refuses to quit goes the spoils—and the spoils, I believe, go to those in order of their risk.
No you're not upsetting me in the sense that I'm getting mad at you :). That's why I caveated what I initially said about your message. I know full well you're not telling people to quit writing but telling them that if they reallllllly want to succeed they're gonna have to bleed and sweat and occasionally cry. I agree with being up front on that too. This is not an easy game and it is not a fluffy profession where someone can sit down, write a book and think they're headed for the big time.
What I am saying and ascribing to is that you have to choose your words carefully with specific writers because while yes, it's hard and yes it ain't this magical career path, there are grades and steps to getting ready to tackle this career. If I'd listened to this podcast twenty years ago I'd have told you to fuck off because I wasn't at that stage yet. I love your gung-ho attitude and it has inspired me to step outside my comfort zone and go do more, do as much as I can to keep this rolling. However, I'm also in a place now where I can devote much more time, money and energy into this career.
Looking back on my path I was always writing. I knew I wanted to be an author when I was a teen. Back then outside of traditional publishing there weren't many (if any) avenues to get published, but I concentrated on my writing skills and slowly over time I started getting small opportunities. I LOVE that the Indie world has sprung up because it has opened that path for people like you and I to give the big five the hand wave and go our own routes. I like being in charge of my own destiny.
To my mind, as authors, we owe the up and coming two things. One, we be honest about what new and would be authors are up against. Like you have said: you have to be willing to work, put in hard time, money, effort and attack this from as many different ways as possible. We owe it to new authors to be straight with them about what they're getting into. I've run into several writers who still think it's a 'write a book and it's a slam dunk' process. I don't even understand how that is still a thing but it is. So we need to point out the truths.
But, my second thing is that I feel we should be lighting the way and encouraging the up and coming authors too. We point out what a bitch it's going to be but we also show them how worthwhile it is if they do put in the time. I love listening to your segments where you talk about how cool it is selling even one book at a show or how great it is when someone tells you your book really knocked it out of the park for them. I love that too--when I get someone writing me back saying, holy hell that was awesome! Making that connection with readers is the best. And I prefer to pass on that enthusiasm to other writers just starting out or in the middle trying to decide where this goes next for them.
I think we're both on the same path. Like you, I am relentless when it comes to writing and publishing. I won't quit because I've gotten tastes of how much fun it is getting those successes, and because I just genuinely enjoy writing "The End" and wondering how the hell I got there.
I'm not for sugar-coating this business but I'm also for looking at a new writer/author and telling them, "Yes, you can do this. Don't give up."
I'm conflicted. We agree that experienced authors owe new authors something, and I definitely want to encourage others to persevere.
At the same time, I regret trusting the common narrative. I spent more than seventy thousand dollars on formal college education to earn an MFA in fiction writing. It benefitted me very little.
I spent more than five years pursuing traditional publishing because that is what "real" authors did. Meanwhile, Hugh Howey, J.A. Konrath and Michael Sullivan self-published books and built huge followings.
Had I known where to look, or been able to hear, I believe with my whole heart, I'd be in a similar place to those authors, but there was no one giving me permission to leave the "path".
Those are years I can never get back, but at least I was all in. I learned so much, even if it was learning not what to do.
What can I say? There are piles of bodies behind me. Kids and young adults and middle-aged folks and reinventing-retirees who left academia and never wrote again. These are the same people who believed they wanted the writers lifestyle. Many of them, if given permission to quit, say they'd have done it, but they felt guilty for putting so much in and felt they had to complete what they started. It's the sunk cost fallacy, and it's deadly.
Would you consider returning as a guest to TRBM to further explore this topic? I've enjoyed our correspondence here.
I agree it's a tricky proposition. I've read Indie stuff that has no business being published but I've also read really GOOD fiction. I took writing classes in college and for the real world, I thought they offered very little. Also, where I went, the focus was very much centered around "literary" prose with a distinct disdain for genre fiction.
I spent a long time too, going through the "process" of sending my work to traditional publishers and it got me absolutely nowhere. Sure, I'm not the greatest writer and I'll give a pass on my first couple of novels but my skills have come a long way and I still came up against walls. It's why I turned to Indie publishing too. I know I write well and tell a good story.
To your comment about getting the wasted time back--I choose to look at that time as part of the journey even though it seems like it was a waste. For my own self, I spent several years just half-assing on the writing front because it wasn't clear to me what the next steps were. But even then I don't see it as wasted time. It was me living my life and readying myself for being in that proper place mentally to move forward.
I think that's why I spoke out about this particular podcast. I truly, honestly believe everything that happens to us serves our needs. Sometimes in ways we don't expect and sometimes in ways we couldn't predict, but even when it seems like we're just sitting idle, or even moving backwards, we're actually moving forward. We just don't see it in the bigger picture.
With other writers, I don't feel like it's my job or right to tell someone to quit. I don't know what's going on in their life at any given moment and even if they completely suck, it doesn't mean they can't figure it out at some point. It's their choice, and while I suppose we can give them the option or the out to quit, it's ultimately up to them. I certainly don't see all ends for someone else--hell, half the time I can't see my own greatest good :)
And I know about the sunk/cost fallacy--it's real and it is a quagmire that will suck people down. I think it's fair to point out the downside of this business, I just don't feel it's my right or place to decide whether they should quit. And I don't believe that's your real aim or intent either--listening yesterday I think you were saying essentially the same thing--this business is rough and you have to be prepared for the harsh realities, and you have to give it your all if you want to get to the level of really being self-sustaining.
For me, I see another side of writing and its benefits even if they are only half-assing it right now.
I ran across a horror book on Amazon pre-pandemic and it was awful. The guy told me when his characters were scared, he used all the trope words--dark, evil, etc., and the story was nothing new or special. I gave him a poor rating and pointed out the flaws in my review. I also told him not to give up--to go take classes on writing and to read horror to see how it's done properly. I never heard back from him and I don't know if he kept up with it or not, but at that time he was not ready to publish and never should have. On the other hand, it doesn't mean he won't be in the future or isn't now.
Maybe I'm too much of an optimist :) :)
And yeah, I think this topic is a good one--I'd be willing to come back on and get in deeper on this.
And I thought I'd heard the unfiltered Jody Sperling before!
Ha! I’m glad I let this one rip. I might not always feel the way I felt that day, but I know I felt it authentically that day.
I agree with you on this one.
Whenever I've met someone who says they're a writer, I ask what they're working on.
If htye're not currently elbows deep in a few projects, I don't take them seriously.
Writers write.
Yes!
So glad you and Craig got to continue the discusion on the podcast!